Bowling for Columbine

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UncleMilo
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Post by UncleMilo » Sat Oct 26, 2002 4:58 pm

Mroni wrote:Well I might check it out but Micheal moore is a piece of shit for his other film roger and me where he tried to destroy the head of gms credibility with a bunch of lies. Hes into yellow journalism bigtime.


Mr Oni
I see...

Once again Mr. Oni is showing what a moron he is.

First off... it's a DOCUMENTARY, not a news article...

Second... are you saying that GM President Roger Smith didn't inflate his own pockets by building factories outside of the US and then shut down US companies putting thousands out of work while getting hims self a heaping big bonus... and isn't now getting millions a year in retirement while a whole city collapses?

Or maybe you just are one of those people who believes that if you keep saying "that's not true" loud enough and shutting your eyes hard enough and jamming your fingers in your eard deep enough that all the bad things will indeed go away and all the true things will actually become false because of your zealous protestations.

Given all I have read from you

and all your brain-dead, hostile, and ignorant comments

I am not surprised that you would have such a hateful disposition against Michael Moore.

Damn you're just so stupid that it gives me a stomach ache.

-Uncle Milo
There are two kinds of people in this world:
Those who divide people into two kinds of groups
and those who don't.

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kthulhu
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Post by kthulhu » Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:04 pm

Mroni is a Republican, or so I've heard. And I think he's cranky, since Lum plushie is holding back sex.
I'm out...

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mexicanjunior
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Post by mexicanjunior » Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:16 pm

kthulhu wrote:Mroni is a Republican, or so I've heard. And I think he's cranky, since Lum plushie is holding back sex.
Indeed, she got bulemic after I called her fat and he's been making due with trackball-chan. =\

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MCWagner
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Post by MCWagner » Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:39 pm

Much as I dislike being on the same side of an issue as Oni...I have to agree with him on Michael Moore, although worded in a manner a bit less volitile. The basic problem is that Moore always assumes he's talking to the choir, so he rarely bothers to back up his observations with hard facts, just assuming everyone knows what he's talking about. To be fair, many of the problems people have with his work might have perfectly reasonable explanations, but, taking any criticism as an attack, he responds to critics with verbal haranguing or completely ignoring them, rather than answer their questions.

Here's some examples of problems people have found with his works. Concerning his book "Stupid White Men."

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html

"Most baffling of Moore's misstatements may come in a listing of categories that the U.S. tops, such as per capita energy use and births to teenagers. In a blatant misrepresentation, he states: "We're number one in budget deficit (as a percentage of GDP)." When Moore wrote his book last year, the United States was running a budget surplus, as it had for the previous three years. "

Even people in the same political spectrum as him have grown tired of having to defend their policies while the opposition attacks the straw men Moore sets up. (In short, if Moore lies when making his points, and the opposition can take down his arguments by pointing out the lies, everyone else has to argue all the harder just to be trusted.)

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/47/film-powers.php

(Go about halfway down for a differing opinion on Bowling for Columbine.)

In fact, sometimes hatred for the man himself starts getting in the way of making reasonable arguments on the topics at hand.

http://www.reason.com/hod/bd101802.shtml

[urlhttp://www.nj.com/entertainment/ledger/index.s ... 820710.xml[/url]

"I think Michael is a great showman and propagandist for political causes that I support, and I'm delighted at his success," e-mails Salon editor-in-chief David Talbot, whose Web site also runs Spinsanity's articles. "I just don't think people should confuse him with being a journalist."



For me, I dislike Moore because of a little something that happened to him after his first film "Roger and Me" came out. One of his staff got canned. Figuring that imitation was the sincerest form of flattery, the ex-staffer got a couple of friends and a movie camera and started following Moore around every day. (This is what Moore did to "Roger" in his own film.) Despite the fact that "Roger" was a big bad evil corporate cutthroat, he never did anything about Moore following him around other than get angry a couple of times.

Moore, on the other hand, called the cops and had the ex-staffer arrested. In my book, that makes him a hypocrite.

Again, all IMHO.
Als Gregor Samsa eines Morgens aus unruhigen Träumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem Bett zu einem ungeheueren Ungeziefer verwandelt.

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MCWagner
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Post by MCWagner » Sun Oct 27, 2002 6:40 pm

(Crud, sorry, missed a bracket on one of those.)


http://www.nj.com/entertainment/ledger/ ... 820710.xml
Als Gregor Samsa eines Morgens aus unruhigen Träumen erwachte, fand er sich in seinem Bett zu einem ungeheueren Ungeziefer verwandelt.

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Mroni
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Post by Mroni » Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:34 pm

Interesting links! anyway I'm not responding to Milo because hes just a complete idiot. If you make a documentary about someone you are opening yourself up for criticism. If you Make proveable falsehoods in that documentary you are liar. It's that simple hes a great showman nothing else. And lets get one thing else straight I'm not a republican!!!!!!
Or a Democrato for that matter.
Mexican junior- :oops: :cry:

Mc wagner-Well in his roger and Me documentary he also says he that Roger smith refused to meet with him when smith can prove that he made 3 seperate offers to meet with him.

Btw The reason the american automobile industry was suffering so bad in the early 80s was that Gm was cranking out pure shit trying to sell it and then paying assembly line workers 50k a year!!!!! That was thanks to overpowerful unions.

Mr Oni
Purity is wackable!
"Don't trust me I'm over 40!"

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klinky
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Post by klinky » Sun Oct 27, 2002 10:51 pm

I would have more of a problem with the designers of the shit getting paid a quater of a million a year to design the shit, rather then the 50K the people who made the shit were paid.

High wages for blue-collar workers are NOT a bad thing.


~klinky

TaranT
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Post by TaranT » Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:38 am

Another example of Moore's mendacity or sloppiness (whichever it is) comes from a National Post (Canada) article by Christie Blatchford:
It is instructive to watch Mr. Moore's film.

He uses Canada, and Canadians, as a constant point of comparison to his own country and fellow citizens. He takes his camera to Sarnia, Ont., and to Windsor, and to Toronto -- three cities I know well -- and in each, he claims Canada is so safe, so without violence, that he routinely walks into unlocked front doors. He interviews a selection of dullards who burble that, why, of course there's no need to lock a door! He asks about a slum in Toronto, and offers as the worst one a brief shot of a neat, mixed-income development -- the Woodgreen co-op in the east end of the city, I believe, but I saw it only for a few seconds and was so shocked I could barely take it in.

His journalism, in short, on the subject of Canada and Canadians, is nothing short of shoddy, manipulative and untrue. The same can be said for his journalism on his own country, and indeed on the terrible and complicated issue he purports to adjudicate.
The complete article is here:
http://www.canada.com/national/features ... 455BD1987}

**************

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klinky
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Post by klinky » Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:48 am

I think the idea behind Bowling for Columbine is to state that Americans are the reason for Americans killing Americans, not video games, movies, guns, media... :\


~klinky

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Mroni
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Post by Mroni » Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:07 am

Klinky-Actually it wasn't the designers fault they were given very strict guidelines with which to work in. Gm was making cookie cutter cars which noboby really wanted ex (chev celberity,Pontiac 6000,buick century,Olds cutless ciera,Same car with different badges). Also remember that 50k in 84 was alot more than it is now. Just think all this guy does is turn a bolt and he gets 50k a year. Do you think his counterpart in japan made that? no but anyway it dosen't matter now because there is no difference between japanese and american cars now they are all made in Taiwan.

Mr Oni
Purity is wackable!
"Don't trust me I'm over 40!"

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