COMPETING IS USELESS

[Arigatomina]

I'm glad you know so much about my tastes and viewing habits to make such an absolute statement.

Easy, there. I'm sorry I made it an absolute statement. ^_^; I meant it as a generalization - like 90% of the videos you watch are from cons. And I'll be the first to admit, I only know you from your posts on the forum. Like the thread on why pimping is useless:

Also I think a lot of "casual viewers" are like me and rarely watch AMVs. If you've noticed in my own thread like 90% of the vids I mention I saw at a convention. That's the only time I really watch a lot of AMVs and since it'sa contest, generally they are good videos. Now I don't claim to be every viewer here, but I have a feeling looking at the results in the past....that's the way a lot of people are and thus the popularity contest.

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... sc&start=0

I didn't meant to say you'd *never ever in a million years* watch a vid you didn't see at a convention. I just went with you as an example of the "casual" con-viewer, for whom non-con videos make up 10% of what you watch.

I'm sure you're busy, especially if you're going to cons regularly. My statement wasn't a diss against con-viewers. It was a question of how much their vote accounts for the entire org collective.

[dwchang]

Easy, there. I'm sorry I made it an absolute statement. ^_^; I meant it as a generalization - like 90% of the videos you watch are from cons.

Oh of course! How could I misunderstand with such words like only and adamant.

Dw is very adamant about how the only place to find good vids are at amv conventions.

Only (adj.) - Without anyone or anything else.
Adamant (adj.) - Impervious to pleas, appeals, or reason.

I'm sure you're busy, especially if you're going to cons regularly.

I go to maybe 4 cons on 4 weekends out of the 52 each year. Hardly as busy as say...a job? I'm glad you also know my vacation habits Are we done with the assumptions?

Now that we've cleared that all up, how about talking about the true topic at hand:

You're operating under the assumption that there is some divide between a con video and a video on the .org when in fact for 90% of them, it's the same thing.

Look at the results of every VCA in the past 3 years. Then look at the award's list at major conventions. Notice a pattern? Sure it's not 100% accurate, but a pattern does exist:

-Good videos win at convention contests.
-Good videos win at the VCAs.
-The good videos that win and are nominated at the VCAs tend to be those contest winners.

Is it any surprise that good videos that win at cons, tend to win at the VCAs and are popular vids here? Maybe it's because they're...good?

On the con specific front:
Con-goers may not all be org members, but when 10,000 people see your video at a contest and let's be generous and say 200 of them like it. Let's say some of them *are* members. They will probably log on, search for it, download it and if you're lucky you get an opinion.

On top of this, you mention word of mouth and I agree. 10,000 people tend to talk a lot and spread things that they like. Now obviously all of them aren't going to talk, but let's say even 20 do. If you extrapolate this, you can easily see how word of mouth works at cons like it does on the .org.

Notice how contests seem to have the same trends with good videos as here? There's no seperation between the two. It's all one big "game" (if you wanna call it that).

On top of this, the majority of opinions I get are right after contests that I've competed in. Or rather I get a large influx of them afterwards. Hell look at Castor, I remember seeing his video at my first contest (Anime Central 2002) and immediately logged on here to find it. He also won at some big contests and a lot of folks now know his name (his creed video will definitely make it bigger )

However, this is not to say this is *the* way or anything as you continually (and continually) try to imply that some of us believe. It's a mixture of things (as Sarah alluded to), but ultimately it comes down to one thing simple thing (that Beowulf mentioned)...Make a good video. If you don't do that part, it doesn't matter how many cons you enter or how many threads you make.

Once you do, I guess it's up to the "fans" and yourself as to what direction it goes whether you send it to every contest in the nation or not even announce it.

At the same time, with respect to the specific Viewer's Choice Awards, again, look at past histories. There is a pattern and you can't argue against actual data with assumptions and generalizations.

[Voices_Of_Ryan]

This is kinda Neat to read threw.

While I totally agree that sometimes the more "popular" people get the better amount of votes. Still, If it WAS true that they where the only ones to get votes then no one new would ever get popular.

It's just time passing. Everyone has their time whether they choose to use it or not. I think that's true with most everything. The only odd part that confuses me about this topic is quite.

"How to become known" is a conflicted topic by itself. Do you become known by being good, or do you become known by being popular with people in the first place.

It's chicken and the egg.

[Arigatomina]

Oh of course! How could I misunderstand with such words like only and adamant.

Only (adj.) - Without anyone or anything else.
Adamant (adj.) - Impervious to pleas, appeals, or reason.

Again, I'm sorry I made it an absolute statement. I admit I made it an absolute statement. I'm sorry I made it an absolute statement. I'm not denying my guilt and wrongness in making it an absolute statement. I'm sorry I did that.

I'm glad you also know my vacation habits Are we done with the assumptions?

Where does this come from? You said in your last post that you were too busy to download random videos off the org. You told me yourself in that post that you were busy. In the post before that (the one I quoted and linked), you also implied that you were busy because 90% of the videos you watch were at cons (going to con = leaving the house = takes longer than downloading a vid = busy). Was that an assumption for me to say I know you're busy? You told me you were busy. I know that you told me you were busy. So I can say honestly - without making an assumption - that I know you're busy. o.O

You're operating under the assumption that there is some divide between a con video and a video on the .org when in fact for 90% of them, it's the same thing.

I didn't know that. I honestly had no idea 90% of the vids on the org were con vids. I thought there was larger difference - like maybe half the vids on the org were con vids (if that). I didn't know it was as high as 90% being both. ^_^;

Look at the results of every VCA in the past 3 years. Then look at the award's list at major conventions. Notice a pattern? Sure it's not 100% accurate, but a pattern does exist:

-Good videos win at convention contests.
-Good videos win at the VCAs.
-The good videos that win and are nominated at the VCAs tend to be those contest winners.

I guess I could have found that out by looking on the vid profiles to see that they've all been submitted to cons. I think you (or someone else, please don't yell at me if it wasn't you) brought this point up last year. It sounds familiar. I should have remembered that.

Like I said in my first post, I don't go to cons. I didn't know that 90% of the vids here were con vids. I didn't know that every vid that's won (I'll say 'most' just in case there are a few that haven't - no absolute statements, I swear) had also won at a convention. I asked because I don't know.

I'm really sad to hear that there's no difference between con vids and general vids, or the people who vote for the vcas. This means that by not going to cons, or sending to cons, I'm on the outside of the org membership. It's disappointing, that's why I didn't want to believe it. I thought anyone (I really do mean anyone, but I'll make that 'almost anyone' just in case) could be a member and watch vids here and vote for the contest as members, and that a good video could win whether it was seen at a con or not.

I'd say I was wrong, but since mine was a question, not a statement, I don't need to. Thank you for telling me the way things are. ^_^ I've never been good at figuring out patterns, especially of things I'm not a part of.

[Voices_Of_Ryan]

Dear Ari, Dwchang,
I think you guys are enjoying this way too much : ).

[dwchang]

I didn't know that. I honestly had no idea 90% of the vids on the org were con vids. I thought there was larger difference - like maybe half the vids on the org were con vids (if that). I didn't know it was as high as 90% being both. ^_^;

Uhm...what?

I was saying that 90% of videos submitted to conventions have entries on the .org. Not the other way around.

I'm really sad to hear that there's no difference between con vids and general vids, or the people who vote for the vcas. This means that by not going to cons, or sending to cons, I'm on the outside of the org membership. It's disappointing, that's why I didn't want to believe it. I thought anyone (I really do mean anyone, but I'll make that 'almost anyone' just in case) could be a member and watch vids here and vote for the contest as members, and that a good video could win whether it was seen at a con or not.

Uhm...what? Based on the dripping sarcasm, I'm not even gonna reply to this (or most of your post) other than:

"Stop trying the passive aggressive approach?" You tend to use it a lot to try and make yourself the victim. Then again, most people tend to buy it.

Other than that:
Dear Ari,

Please to stop twisting my words kthnx!

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Dear Ari, Dwchang,
I think you guys are enjoying this way too much : ).

It's true, Professor DWchang enjoys it too much

You guys are reading into this too much... Contests that have judges and those that have fans vote are two different beasts and do not net the same results... Popularity of the video (in both anime and music and genera (Drama, Comedy, etc)) do have a major influence in audience votes... This concept can be applied to cons and the VCAs That’s all there is to it

Vlad

[Scintilla]

You're operating under the assumption that there is some divide between a con video and a video on the .org when in fact for 90% of them, it's the same thing.

I didn't know that. I honestly had no idea <b>90% of the vids on the org were con vids.</b>

Um, somehow I think DW meant it the other way around... if anywhere near that many of the Org videos went to cons, then I wouldn't always be suggesting that people send their videos to cons.

I thought anyone (I really do mean anyone, but I'll make that 'almost anyone' just in case) could be a member and watch vids here and vote for the contest as members, and that a good video could win whether it was seen at a con or not.

For example, silver_moon doesn't submit to conventions, but her videos are hands down some of my favorites from last year. I wonder how I magically found those since they were never submitted Funny how that works...

I guess I should also mention that silver_moon is up for a few VCAs this year.

But some thoughts of my own, in response to what you said there: I don't deny that a good video CAN win whether or not it's seen at a con (was "Toushi" sent to any cons? I can't find it by Google-searching amv-contest-lists.org, and yet it's #3 on the op score list); <i>however,</i> I feel that sending a good video to (a) con(s) <i>increases its chances</i> of winning by getting the word out about it.

I will also say that a good video probably CAN'T win (we are still talking about the VCAs, right?) if the creator doesn't promote it somehow. If people don't know it exists, they can't vote for it.

[Arigatomina]

I didn't know that. I honestly had no idea 90% of the vids on the org were con vids. I thought there was larger difference - like maybe half the vids on the org were con vids (if that). I didn't know it was as high as 90% being both. ^_^;

Uhm...what?

I was saying that 90% of videos submitted to conventions have entries on the .org. Not the other way around.

I didn't get that. You said there was no line - the line I was imagining was between con vids and vids not sent to cons. You were talking about a line between con vids listed here and con vids not listed here. So we were talking about two different lines. It makes a lot more sense now. ^_^;; And I definitely agree. I've only been to one very small amv contest, and I'd already watched all but 4 of the vids shown (downloaded them off the org, as a matter of fact). So, yeah, I can see how most con vids would also be listed here. No argument on that.

Uhm...what?

I was going forward with the idea that you were talking about there not being a line between vids sent to cons and vids listed here. So I was going way left of what you were talking about. ^_^;;

"Stop trying the passive aggressive approach?" You tend to use it a lot to try and make yourself the victim. Then again, most people tend to buy it.

Ah, not trying to be a victim so much as tongue-in-cheek smirking. It's a really bad habit. When you jumped on my "I'm sure you're busy" statement and got angry about me 'assuming to know anything about your vacations" I couldn't resist. And I'd already appologized for using very inappropriate words (adamant, only). So the definitions to prove I'd been making absolute statements - it just made me feel like you didn't believe I was sorry.

I was replying to Scintilla, so I wasn't thinking about how my words would be an insult to you. Looking at it now, I was an ass to say you're adamant (to me the definition of that is you continue to stick to your belief on the matter and are willing to state it loudly and consistently). And the only should have been preceded by 'about the' so it wouldn't be absolute (so it would reflect the 90%).

Other than that:
Dear Ari,

Please to stop twisting my words kthnx!

Sorry.

I really was confused about the line, though. That wasn't twisting, it was misunderstanding. The rest was just me being mean by thinking you were having as much fun arguing as I was.

[Castor Troy]

It's time to end this.

If I was nominated, I would kick everyone's ass in this competition because I am so awesome. Now Goku and I can win Otakon and the Super Bowl.

The end.




[MOD22: The previous posts are too meshed between on-topic and off-topic for me to simply split them out. Please keep the bickering to private messages or this thread will become locked.]